An agnostic is someone who believes that the existence of a god or gods is unknowable. A-gnostic - without knowledge/knowing. Often agnosticism is misinterpreted as 'I think there might be but I need proof'. In the strict philosophical sense, it means absolute certainty that the question of God is unknowable as we can only perceive material things, and God is supposedly beyond the material. So you can have atheist and theist agnostics. I am an agnostic atheist - I believe we can't know if there is anything beyond the material plane, and I also have no belief in God.
Something that doesn't seem to be too well covered here is that it is difficult to be an atheist (the same way I imagine it should be hard to be a theist)- it requires a fair amount of thought and self analysis, and constant review and assessment. People have made light of the nihilistic despair that can come with atheism that one needs to work through. I turned to philosophy to help me understand why I was so uncomfortable with theism (there is a book "Atheism:the case against God", which I recommend to everyone for a good philosophical assessment of the arguments. I much prefer it to Dawkins, as it isn't aggressive, and it covers the philosophical/theological side of things properly). What I am left with is my belief that there is nothing after I die - I have this life and that's it. So I strive to make the best of this life - I have learned what makes my life pleasant and enjoyable, and so I do those things (work, keeping in shape, being in love, raising a child, socialising with friends, helping people). As someone stated earlier in the thread, it's Hedonism according to the philosophical position (although we can deconstruct that too
). Unfortunately the word has been hijacked and now is commonly taken as meaning "reckless self-destruction through gorging oneself.I don't believe we are special, we're just a species of ape with a bigger brain. We have evolved inquisitive and analytical brains that allow us to take alternate positions and extrapolate from imagined paths. I think the logical result of that thought/imagination is that we will create magnificent ideas, and that we can share them with each other and understand them. In some cases many people will agree that one imagined idea sounds particularly good, and then they might believe it is true, even though they cannot give evidence for it beyond their communal belief. The beauty of having a communal belief without evidence, is that you can never deconstruct it on the basis of logic and reason. It is impossible.
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Science can explain many things, but it sometimes doesn't capture the essence of them. I can logically and scientifically describe the emotion of love, why it happens, what it is for - but I can't explain how it feels to someone who hasn't experienced it. I've never had a belief in God, so I don't know what it feels like. I know that if someone told me that the emotion I felt for my partner or daughter was pointless and irrelevant and stupid, I would be greatly offended. Consequently I don't go attacking people's beliefs freely. There are important distinctions to be made - for example there is belief in God vs belief in the scriptures. There is belief in God vs actions in God's name. Much like the atheist who says "I have no belief in God, and therefore I'm going to kill all these people" - it is not the absence of belief that made him do it, it is his own nature. Obviously it gets complicated with theism when people follow human interpretations of ancient scriptures and kill because God told them to.
I used to be an angry atheist, but I think that was part of growing into someone who was comfortable with that position. I don't get angry about it anymore, and it only becomes an issue for me if I feel me or mine are being encroached upon by a theist (my daughter being told atheists will go to hell for instance - not acceptable). I think that our societies are at a stage where it is ok to be an atheist, and I am grateful to the angry atheists of the past that have got us here - I firmly believe that state and church should be seperate, and I firmly believe that we should all be allowed to follow whatever God we choose unless that belief negatively impacts upon others. If every member (or the majority) of a religion was out to kill the rest of us, then that religion should not be tolerated - if it's small sects of a religion, then those sects should not be tolerated - if it's individual members that happen to have a religion, then those individuals should not be tolerated.
7 comments:
Mon dieu - what were you smoking, and can I have some?
Kidding. Awesome post.. food for thought. xxx
The problem with atheism and even being agnostic is that they're labels. To label beliefs is to fit them into a category. To me, labeling a lack of belief system is like telling you how you feel about your daughter. Unless we follow a certain rulebook of non-belief, we can't know we remotely believe the same things.
IMO, the only true atheists are the ones who haven't thought it through. The rest of us believe in small snippets from various sources, be they coincidentally pagan notions, notions from organized religions, or from an entirely different source altogether.
I don't believe we are special, we're just a species of ape with a bigger brain.
The cynical biologist in me is always skeptical of any parallels or tangents we might draw from animals. We don't know what they think. They don't think like we do, but that doesn't make us more rational, more thinking, and more communicative than they are. We just don't know, imo. Don't judge an animal until you've walked a mile with his feet, I guess.
Hi Prin - I get what you're saying. But atheism is just that - the absence of belief in a god or gods. I have no such belief. Anything beyond that initial statement isn't atheism - it's just the constructs we have for our own world view (I think you're reaching the same conclusion). All vacuums are equal - all absences of belief are equal. What is placed in the vacuum varies wildly.
I have rituals and celebrations, but they aren't related to a god or gods, or even a notion of Gaia. They're just things I do to celebrate the passage of time. I take pleasure in the seasons, in the tides, in the waxing and waning of the moon - but it's pleasure born of wonderment, not divine creation. I am an atheist.
As for the ape comment - that was just to do away with the notion of a soul making us 'special' (i.e. I don't believe we have souls, or if we do, I don't believe we are exclusive in having such). It wasn't a qualitative judgement of us vs apes.
However - I think that as far as our own measurements of intelligence and communication go, we score highest. Go figure ;)
Nah. we only think we score highest because we don't know how to compare our systems with those of other species.
Bees - now that is wicked communication. Sea mammals. Bats. They are only limited by their physiology, but that does not mean they are less intelligent or apt at communcation than we humans are.
Bugs were here before us, and they will be here after us. Wonder who's the smart one then ;-)
PS: re souls... if you are nothing but flesh and bones, that is very sad IMO. I believe there is a reason why humans click/connect with each other and it has nothing to do with physicality or intelligence.
But that is a whole other discussion, entirely ;-)
But to assume your non-belief and mine are equal is to be a victim of organized religion. To really be free, imo, we have to assume that neither of us thinks like the other and therefore we cannot and should not categorize our beliefs as the same.
Atheism is essentially just a calming label, much like any other organized religion's label.
I'd much rather list my beliefs than throw a name out there and assume people know what the hell I'm talking about. :D
Prin - fundamentally, the absence of belief in god or gods is identical. If I have no car and you have no car, there is no difference in our "has a car" status. It's not the same as theists - one of them has a car, and so does another one, but they'll both spend ages telling you how different their car is (both cars are obviously old and worn out and not up to speed with the modern Darwin500 series from Dawkins Inc).
Our beliefs are entirely different to our atheism. Neither of us have cars, but maybe you have a hang glider and I have a hot air ballon.
TD - Sorry but going to disagree with you. Humans are the most intelligent form of life (there's no evidence to support any other view). There's nothing to suggest that bees or any other creature are even close to our level of intelligence. Bees can communicate, and efficiently at that - but we communicate far more information between many more individuals.
As for souls - there is an essence of a human being, and that essence can't really be captured by scientific examination. I call that someone's soul, but I don't believe that souls are eternal. They die with us. As for how that links to being 'the one' - that's a harder thing to explain. I don't know that trying to will do anything other than try and turn the magical into the mundane. I'm happy with it as a glorious mystery :)
It's ok to agree to disagree. I wonder if animals do that.
he he.
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